The following interview first appeared in the print zine Everything Crash from March 2009.
Pama International were a favourite of ours during our time in the UK in 2008. They are perhaps the most prolific reggae band in the UK. In addition, keyboardist Sean Flowerdew has a rich ska and reggae history and presently runs the record label Rockers Revolt. Pama International will release a new album, titled Pama Outernational, towards the end of 2009. To read the full interview, click Read More.
You’re not new to the record label game. How is Rockers Revolt different from Jamdown, which released the first of Pama International’s records?
I started my first label in 1988, Staccato Records which released albums and 12”s by; The Loafers, Maroon Town, a live comp featuring The Trojans, Potato 5, Hotknives, The Deltones, Judge Dread, and a few others. I ran Jamdown Records from 1996 to 2004, but by that time it had purely become a vehicle for Pama Intl. Rockers Revolt launched at the end of 2007, again primarily as a vehicle for Pama Intl.
There’s no major differences between Jamdown and Rockers Revolt. They’re both born out of love for ska/reggae. I suppose Jamdown released more bands leaning towards punk (4ft Fingers, Rudebones from Japan and Identity No 1, which was a fantastic record, they should of been huge). Under Jamdown we also released some more trad.ska sounds: Topcats and Stubborn All-stars (one of the best records we issued), some US ska (Bim Skala Bim), some 2 Tone sounding stuff (Capone & The Bullets), a couple of decent comps and three Pama Intl releases. Nothing sold though apart from Pama, Stubborn All-stars and 4ft Fingers a bit. Well not enough to justify running a label. It was more of a hobby I guess!
Rockers Revolt is a much serious affair for all the right reasons. Throughout 2008 we tried to put out hot sounds from both sides of the Atlantic and also get label tours going. Some have worked. Some have failed in fine style, which has been a bit of a shock. 2008 was not a good year financially to try and establish a label! But we battle on and I think we’ve got the RR name out there quite well, in a short space of time. The response to the Pama Intl love Filled Dub Band has been tremendous. It’s in a few “Best of 2008 albums” round-ups; Total Music mag had it in their Top 10 of the year and Record Collector had it in their Top 10 Reggae albums of the year. So that’s was a huge buzz. Ed Rome’s debut ‘A Life In Minutes’ is doing very well as well. Steve Lamacq included Ed in his best albums of 2008 on his BBC Radio 2 show. Again, a huge buzz.
As an outsider, I have my own, largely positive, views on the UK ska and reggae scene. As an insider, what state do you think it is in, and how could it improve?
There are a lot of positives in the UK. Reggae is a lot more accepted in the mainstream then it’s been for years. Not to the level of the mid to late 70s/early 80s when you’d have many reggae stars gracing the charts and covers of the music press, but it’s definitely played by a lot more DJs currently then it’s been for a while. You’ll also get decent reggae shows coming through and every decent festival will include reggae bands. Even the big folk festivals are doing that now. Ska not so much, but with the reformation of The Specials and Madness doing their 30th anniversary thing that might bring new and increased interest to the scene. I hope so.
I don’t like to dwell on negatives, but if I had to I’d say there aren’t enough bands walking original paths. The more creative bands get the more people will tune in, the stronger the scene becomes.
Clearly Pama International is quite different from The Loafers. Does your change in creative outlet reflect your own musical tastes and what you now listen to on a day to day basis compared to your days in the Loafers? And if so, how does it differ?
The Loafers was a long time ago. We started that when we were 12. We were a bunch of school mates who loved ska and started a band. Nasser the drummer (now fronting Big Boss Man) tended to write most of the songs and Finny (now Pama) did some lyrics. I only wrote a couple of tracks back then. I didn’t start writing properly until the late 90s. 10 years after The Loafers. So, I guess the main difference is I do most of the writing in Pama Intl, so it’s a more personal thing. That and being 20 years older Pama Intl has got a more mature sound?
Back in Loafers times I was listening mainly to 2 Tone sounds. Dance Craze was released on video in the late 80s and that was hardly ever out the machine. I absolutely loved it. Still do. It was a big influence. Now I’ve had 20+ years to listen to more music so I’ve got a wider spectrum of musical influences. Currently on the stereo are a great dub album from Jimmy Radway and a Phyllis Dillon comp. What a beautiful voice. What I listen to definitely reflects how Pama Intl is sounding. Whilst making the last Pama Intl record, ‘Love Filled Dub Band’ I was listening to Black Ark and King Tubby productions deliberately to submerge myself in their sounds and styles. This time round it’s more King Tubby and some Stax... a lot of 70s reggae and soul.
Why don’t you think you see more continental bands touring in the UK, despite its relative proximity?
Simply because they don’t have their records released over here. To make any real impact in any country you need a record out. You need to be getting airplay and you need to be getting press. For a foreign band to come to the UK and just gig is nearly impossible and they certainly won’t get any decent size crowds. Even bands like The Aggrolites don’t do as well as they should in the UK, because they haven’t got a label working it on the ground here. They’ve supported Madness on an arena tour, recorded Radio One sessions, toured here several times and are signed to Hellcat Records. They are a killer live band, one of the best I seen. But still they’re lucky to get 150-300 people at a show, maybe more in London. They should be pulling 1000+ a show. They’re certainly good enough to be doing that. But they haven’t got a label in the UK working it. With all The Aggrolites have achieved and done and they’re only pull those sort of numbers what chance do unheard of foreign bands stand?
If you’re a band then wherever you are from, wherever you are touring, on whatever level it’s all about getting a killer record out in that territory. Without that, it’s very difficult.
How much of your decision to sign a band for Rockers Revolt is down to personal taste and how is whether the band will be well received by the UK or global audience?
I won’t put out a band if I don’t like them. Unfortunately it is becoming harder to make a label work financially, so I also have to think how much a band is going to sell now as well. You’ve got to have a bit of commercial sense otherwise you’d go out of business very quickly. This year there’s going to be more of a focus on our own productions akin to Studio One or Stax. More inhouse releases. I’ve just built a studio out the back of my house and currently recording/mixing the next Pama Intl album Pama Outernational. There should be a single off that out in April and then the full album in July.
You’re quite close to the reunion of the Specials with Lynval Golding playing guitar in Pama International. Are you excited by the reunion yourself? And what are your thoughts on the absence of Jerry Dammers?
I think it’s very sad Jerry Dammers isn’t part of the reunion. It’s undeniable how important Jerry was in The Specials and how he was the driving force behind them and the whole 2 Tone movement. I don’t think anyone is disputing that. There’s seven sides to The Specials though. If you talk to them you’ll get seven differing perspectives. Each one of them brought something amazing to the band, which was a huge part of how great they were. I’m sure the shows will be absolutely fantastic and yes, I’m excited about them. With the songs they’ve got and a couple of rehearsals they can’t fail. The tickets sales speak for themselves.
The High-Rise Campaign, including the record, tackles the issue of knife and gun crime. It’s something that should be a concern to most in the south of the UK, but why is it more significant to Pama International than other possible issues?
A few of the band and guests have been affected personally. Lynval was a victim of a very well documented knife act where he almost lost his life. Dennis Alcapone’s stepson was shot dead in a club in London this summer. So there is a personal side to this.
Sadly there are many bad issues to tackle though. You can’t deal with all of them, so it’s a case of one thing at a time. This time it’s the knife and gun problem around the whole of the UK. Over the last couple of generations common decent values have been disappearing, to a point where we’re left with no sense of community and alienation of the youth in many parts of the UK. This has led to the knife and gun problem we face today. The aim of the Highrise Campaign is to raise funds and profile for great charities who are working daily to rectify the situation and give youth opportunities they wouldn’t get otherwise. So, far we’ve got a charity in London called Kids Company http://kidsco.org.uk/ and one in Bristol, Basement Studios http://www.basementstudio.co.uk/ We’re looking for more around the UK. The reaction to the record has been great so far. It was amazing to record with all the guests on there. They all gave their time for nowt. Dennis Alcapone was superb, as ever. It was an absolute honour to have Billy Bragg on there. I’ve been a huge fan since buying his Life’s A Riot debut when I was a kid. He was brilliant. Two takes, a cup of tea and done!
People can buy/find out more about Pama Intl-Highrise Campaign here http://www.rockersrevolt.com/products-page/?brand=1
What is in the pipeline for Pama International and Rockers Revolt for 2009 following the Highrise campaign?
As I said, we’re going to be releasing alot of inhouse productions this year. We’ve got a dub album, the whole of ‘Love Filled Dub Band’ album versioned by Wrongtom (who did all the Hard Fi dubs and recent Roots Manuva dubs). That’s going to come out with a 32 page comic book, which is looking great. All numbered and lovely packaging. A real collectors piece. We’ve got the new album set for a summer release and single before that. There’s a couple of other albums that I’ll be working on for release later in the year.
Live we’re touring with The Levellers in April/May. We’re excited about that. It’s the biggest tour we’ve been part of. All 2000 capacity venues. We’ve been booked for Glastonbury again and a few other great festivals (Glade and Lamar Tree) already. We’ve also just had our first full release in Japan. JVC Japan have released Pama Intl Love Filled Dub Band.
The main focus is recording the new album and gearing up to tell the world about it! I’m truly excited about it. It’s the first album out of our studio. It’s sounding heavier then anything we’ve done before. We’ll be making some previews available next month on www.rockersrevolt.com The first single will be vinyl and free download only.
